Could you please provide sources for the news that "Italy has revised its estimated number of deaths from COVID-19 from over 390,000 to less than 4,000"? My whole family is in Italy and we've had endless uneasy conversations on the validity of PCR tests and the whole pandemic issue. I don't think they know about this and would like to inform them. Thank you
I was about to ask the same question Linda asked. I've been searching and haven't been able to find anything as of yet. And thank you Dr. Jack, your work has been invaluable to us during all of this. :)
I have been seeing people say they cannot find the sources on facebook, twitter, and now here, therefore it's not true. People have weak Google skills. I mean I know it's hidden away from you purposefully by the censors to avoid you coming into contact with the truth, but you just have to try harder. Seriously.
Sorry for being spicy, I've had to post this to people multiple times, so I'm a little annoyed, especially by Mickey's "clickbait as usual" comment. Very lazy.
I searched for quite a while on duck duck go. Thanks for posting. Maybe you can give some tips on how to search. Maybe I need to refresh my French. I don't know Italian though
You can change the language to English on their website. On the same website, there is a string of articles on the ISS data and on Covid, vaccines, etc.
Kary Mullis, MD who developed the PCR test said 2 things about it: 1) It should NOT be used as a diagnostic tool and 2) If you go deep enough in it you can make it say anything you want it to. Portugal has not been using the PCR for at least a year. They quit using it because it produced "too many false positives." It is totally unreliable.
yet as we speak, my kids' 95 yr old grandmother (dad's mom, not mine; if it were MY mom, this would NEVER happen!) is fighting for her life, in hospital, from cv treatments for her 'asymptomatic' cv. she went in for a UTI and upon testing positive, of course became a cv patient (chu-ching $$). I am horrified but cannot do a damn thing; their family bought the entire narrative, all are triple-jabbed and all have had cv at least once, if not twice. my ex tried to suggest that we do PCR tests on our two teens (who have common colds & pink eye. one of our boys has autism). MY 84 yr old mom had to kick him out of our house yesterday (while I was at work) when he showed up with the damn test things, intended to test them after I already said NO. un-bleeping believable the level of brainwashing.
The problem is that many colds and flus are coronaviruses and no test is virus specific. The the CDC and FDA both have taken their approval from the use of the PCR test.
James, Quite a bit of pushback on the veracity of your sources from folks where I posted this on FB and Twitter. Can you provide additional confirmation this is an actual report? Greg Maybury.
USA Today claims it as false. But the distinction being made -- I think -- is that of "dying from Covid" versus "dying with Covid". For example, in one extreme USA case, a person was murdered with handgun-- shot to death. But because the victim tested positive for Covid, this was required to be reported as a Covid death. No joke, sadly. So here's the problem. If I have advanced heart disease or cancer and I have a cold at the time I die, am I dying "from the rhinovirus" or am I dying "with the rhinovirus"? Most of us might understand the cold as minor contributing factor at best, and irrelevant if I were not already in an advanced disease state. We know that many people simply shrug off Covid; others, it affects to various degrees of severity. We really need to know excess deaths, typical results for people in that age range with those co-morbidities, and so on. Otherwise, we risk greatly inflating the deaths from Covid -- caused by the Covid infection. The distinction of deaths "with Covid" matters because Covid is now everywhere. Like the common cold -- like the rhinovirus. So you can always test for and find Covid. But that doesn't necessarily mean you found the killer.
Yes, as we suspected from early 2020, especially after WEF/Davos had its little October 2019 virus war games scenario. The larger issue is how easily the wool was pulled over people’s eyes when simple logic reveals the truth. “Dying with” become a joke. It has backfired - joke is on us.
Your article is misleading. The US CDC does report covid only death at about 6%. So it looks like Italy was just updating there numbers in the same way. You say "except the US CDC" which is not true. I am on your side but when you use this kind of misleading information to prove your point it does more harm then good and makes me doubt your other propositions.
an email to The Associated Press, ISS spokesperson Pier David Malloni said the false posts stemmed from a misleading article in the Italian press that erroneously reported that only 2.9% of the people deceased with a positive test for COVID-19 were really killed by the virus. "This is completely wrong," Malloni said. He added that the report stated that 2.9% of the people who died did not have other comorbidities. Having multiple chronic health conditions puts individuals at greater risk for complications and death from COVID-19, Malloni said, adding that COVID-19 is listed as the cause of death in cases where there are complicating risk factors. According to Malloni, Italy follows the European Centre for Disease Control and the World Health Organization rules in classifying COVID-19 deaths
Thanks for your input - all three comments. Do you know about the false positive rates of the PCR tests used to diagnose COVID-19? Dr. Sin Hang Lee estimates the use of Ct > 35 can lead to FPR of 91%. I concur. There are deep issues with PCR testing and the use of a proxy test result as a diagnosis. Even w/PCR+, doctors know that up to 25% of COVID-19 deaths are not due to COVID-19 as a primary cause (I interviewed Dr. Scott Jensen on this very point and he shared the data). The Italy group that gave the revision is, in my professional opinion, the scientific leaders on this issue in Italy. Public health has abandoned science. For more information on how the US has manipulated public perception and played fast and loose with PCR results and definitions re: COVID-19 and COVID-19 deaths, see my articles on jameslyonsweiler.com (very early on), the Unbreaking Science episode (VERY early on) e.g., https://player.vimeo.com/video/400646428 and this, too - https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/03/24/unbreaking-science-ending-the-pandemic-episode-1-cdcs-deadly-testing-fiasco-fascism-profiteering-both/ And see the peer-reviewed critique by Ealy et al. here - https://www.publichealthpolicyjournal.com/ethics-in-science-and-technololgy
I understand and agree but still think your presentation of this is misleading on the Italy thing for the reasons I mentioned. I know there is lots of manipulation from provac side. .
I will recognize the scientific authorities when I see them, thank you. That's my professional prerogative. Are you saying you trust that part of PH appointed by the Italian gov't?
What would be a black swan test for your hypothesis of overwhelming (>90%) over-counting of covid deaths? My competing theory is that overcounting only occurred in about 40% of reported covid deaths. I offer an Atlantic article about 40% of covid hospitalizations being covid-incidental in support of my hypothesis.
What is unique about covid pathology that might help us discover covid death counts? Maybe damage to the vascular endothelium? So, do pathology reports of covid decedents show pervasive damage to the vascular endothelium--in all organs?
I am saying your statement is misleading and now I don't trust you.
Here is what you said:
The evidence is so overwhelming - and coming in from all sources (except the US CDC) that Italy has revised its estimated number of deaths from COVID-19 from over 130,000* to less than 4,000 - overnight.
They didn't revise the number of deaths they just changed the categories. To died of only covid and with covid and comorbeties or cofactors. It had nothing to do with them readjusting do to inaccurate PCR test like what you said. I am not defending their numbers or the PCR test. I believe like what you said the the high threshold cycles are not producing accurate results. I believe they are manipulating the numbers. But they didn't change the covid deaths but only changed how they categories them and that change had nothing to do with the PCR test being inaccurate. It seems clear you didn't represent the fact accurately and made it sound like they changed the death toll way down because they realized the PCR test was inaccurate.
Oh, so that's how it really looks. Intuitions correct based on observation and logic, and also now empirical evidence. Sad sanity. No wonder so many avoid it.
Could you please provide sources for the news that "Italy has revised its estimated number of deaths from COVID-19 from over 390,000 to less than 4,000"? My whole family is in Italy and we've had endless uneasy conversations on the validity of PCR tests and the whole pandemic issue. I don't think they know about this and would like to inform them. Thank you
http://web.archive.org/web/20220514173237/https://www-iltempo-it.translate.goog/attualita/2021/10/21/news/rapporto-iss-morti-covid-malattie-patologie-come-influenza-pandemia-disastro-mortalita-bechis-29134543/?_x_tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=it&_x_tr_pto=nui
I was about to ask the same question Linda asked. I've been searching and haven't been able to find anything as of yet. And thank you Dr. Jack, your work has been invaluable to us during all of this. :)
Embedded in the article. Click the article title :)
I'm not seeing it
click on the photo/image itself, it takes you to the source
Without links to sources, this is just clickbait as usual
I also cannot find the source that isn't has revised their numbers.
*Italy
I have been seeing people say they cannot find the sources on facebook, twitter, and now here, therefore it's not true. People have weak Google skills. I mean I know it's hidden away from you purposefully by the censors to avoid you coming into contact with the truth, but you just have to try harder. Seriously.
Here is the original source article: https://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/italie-seuls-29-des-morts-du-covid-19-ont-effectivement-succombe-au-virus
Here is the ISS report: https://www.iss.it/documents/20126/0/ReportDecessi_per+COVID+2019_ITA19ottobre.pdf
Sorry for being spicy, I've had to post this to people multiple times, so I'm a little annoyed, especially by Mickey's "clickbait as usual" comment. Very lazy.
I searched for quite a while on duck duck go. Thanks for posting. Maybe you can give some tips on how to search. Maybe I need to refresh my French. I don't know Italian though
I just copied and pasted into Google translate -
Qwant. Is newer uncensored algorithm search app
It was also lazy of popularrationalism to make an astonishing claim without linking to the evidence.
True, actually.
The source states that most of people died from COVID were in high risk groups - can't see why that could surprise anybody.
Google is evil. Use other slightly less evil search engines.
Did you download the ISS document...it appears to have been taken down.
I think the data came from this article in the newspaper "Il Tempo": https://www-iltempo-it.translate.goog/attualita/2021/10/21/news/rapporto-iss-morti-covid-malattie-patologie-come-influenza-pandemia-disastro-mortalita-bechis-29134543/?_x_tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui,op
You can change the language to English on their website. On the same website, there is a string of articles on the ISS data and on Covid, vaccines, etc.
The one article I checked said 130k down to 4K. Where does your bigger number come from?
Good catch, corrected!
Kary Mullis, MD who developed the PCR test said 2 things about it: 1) It should NOT be used as a diagnostic tool and 2) If you go deep enough in it you can make it say anything you want it to. Portugal has not been using the PCR for at least a year. They quit using it because it produced "too many false positives." It is totally unreliable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnN1VeSDzSY&t=70s
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kary+mullis+pcr+test+not+for+diagnosis&view=detail&mid=05768204A865D14D014905768204A865D14D0149&FORM=VIRE
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/20/portuguese-court-rules-pcr-tests-unreliable-quarantines-unlawful/
yet as we speak, my kids' 95 yr old grandmother (dad's mom, not mine; if it were MY mom, this would NEVER happen!) is fighting for her life, in hospital, from cv treatments for her 'asymptomatic' cv. she went in for a UTI and upon testing positive, of course became a cv patient (chu-ching $$). I am horrified but cannot do a damn thing; their family bought the entire narrative, all are triple-jabbed and all have had cv at least once, if not twice. my ex tried to suggest that we do PCR tests on our two teens (who have common colds & pink eye. one of our boys has autism). MY 84 yr old mom had to kick him out of our house yesterday (while I was at work) when he showed up with the damn test things, intended to test them after I already said NO. un-bleeping believable the level of brainwashing.
The problem is that many colds and flus are coronaviruses and no test is virus specific. The the CDC and FDA both have taken their approval from the use of the PCR test.
James, Quite a bit of pushback on the veracity of your sources from folks where I posted this on FB and Twitter. Can you provide additional confirmation this is an actual report? Greg Maybury.
Your thoughts on this fact check:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/05/fact-check-italy-did-not-lower-its-covid-19-death-toll-3-783/6195621001/
USA Today claims it as false. But the distinction being made -- I think -- is that of "dying from Covid" versus "dying with Covid". For example, in one extreme USA case, a person was murdered with handgun-- shot to death. But because the victim tested positive for Covid, this was required to be reported as a Covid death. No joke, sadly. So here's the problem. If I have advanced heart disease or cancer and I have a cold at the time I die, am I dying "from the rhinovirus" or am I dying "with the rhinovirus"? Most of us might understand the cold as minor contributing factor at best, and irrelevant if I were not already in an advanced disease state. We know that many people simply shrug off Covid; others, it affects to various degrees of severity. We really need to know excess deaths, typical results for people in that age range with those co-morbidities, and so on. Otherwise, we risk greatly inflating the deaths from Covid -- caused by the Covid infection. The distinction of deaths "with Covid" matters because Covid is now everywhere. Like the common cold -- like the rhinovirus. So you can always test for and find Covid. But that doesn't necessarily mean you found the killer.
Yes, as we suspected from early 2020, especially after WEF/Davos had its little October 2019 virus war games scenario. The larger issue is how easily the wool was pulled over people’s eyes when simple logic reveals the truth. “Dying with” become a joke. It has backfired - joke is on us.
Your article is misleading. The US CDC does report covid only death at about 6%. So it looks like Italy was just updating there numbers in the same way. You say "except the US CDC" which is not true. I am on your side but when you use this kind of misleading information to prove your point it does more harm then good and makes me doubt your other propositions.
an email to The Associated Press, ISS spokesperson Pier David Malloni said the false posts stemmed from a misleading article in the Italian press that erroneously reported that only 2.9% of the people deceased with a positive test for COVID-19 were really killed by the virus. "This is completely wrong," Malloni said. He added that the report stated that 2.9% of the people who died did not have other comorbidities. Having multiple chronic health conditions puts individuals at greater risk for complications and death from COVID-19, Malloni said, adding that COVID-19 is listed as the cause of death in cases where there are complicating risk factors. According to Malloni, Italy follows the European Centre for Disease Control and the World Health Organization rules in classifying COVID-19 deaths
Thanks for your input - all three comments. Do you know about the false positive rates of the PCR tests used to diagnose COVID-19? Dr. Sin Hang Lee estimates the use of Ct > 35 can lead to FPR of 91%. I concur. There are deep issues with PCR testing and the use of a proxy test result as a diagnosis. Even w/PCR+, doctors know that up to 25% of COVID-19 deaths are not due to COVID-19 as a primary cause (I interviewed Dr. Scott Jensen on this very point and he shared the data). The Italy group that gave the revision is, in my professional opinion, the scientific leaders on this issue in Italy. Public health has abandoned science. For more information on how the US has manipulated public perception and played fast and loose with PCR results and definitions re: COVID-19 and COVID-19 deaths, see my articles on jameslyonsweiler.com (very early on), the Unbreaking Science episode (VERY early on) e.g., https://player.vimeo.com/video/400646428 and this, too - https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/03/24/unbreaking-science-ending-the-pandemic-episode-1-cdcs-deadly-testing-fiasco-fascism-profiteering-both/ And see the peer-reviewed critique by Ealy et al. here - https://www.publichealthpolicyjournal.com/ethics-in-science-and-technololgy
I understand and agree but still think your presentation of this is misleading on the Italy thing for the reasons I mentioned. I know there is lots of manipulation from provac side. .
it may be provocative, but it is not misleading. Anyone can go read the Italian article for themselves.
If that's how you play then I can't trust you and have to research everything you say. Sad
I will recognize the scientific authorities when I see them, thank you. That's my professional prerogative. Are you saying you trust that part of PH appointed by the Italian gov't?
Trust no one. Trust is for children, not adults.
What would be a black swan test for your hypothesis of overwhelming (>90%) over-counting of covid deaths? My competing theory is that overcounting only occurred in about 40% of reported covid deaths. I offer an Atlantic article about 40% of covid hospitalizations being covid-incidental in support of my hypothesis.
What is unique about covid pathology that might help us discover covid death counts? Maybe damage to the vascular endothelium? So, do pathology reports of covid decedents show pervasive damage to the vascular endothelium--in all organs?
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11845-021-02638-8
We don't see this with influenza, because influenza doesn't infect the vascular endothelium. It's an ACE2 receptor thing with covid, but not with flu.
I am saying your statement is misleading and now I don't trust you.
Here is what you said:
The evidence is so overwhelming - and coming in from all sources (except the US CDC) that Italy has revised its estimated number of deaths from COVID-19 from over 130,000* to less than 4,000 - overnight.
They didn't revise the number of deaths they just changed the categories. To died of only covid and with covid and comorbeties or cofactors. It had nothing to do with them readjusting do to inaccurate PCR test like what you said. I am not defending their numbers or the PCR test. I believe like what you said the the high threshold cycles are not producing accurate results. I believe they are manipulating the numbers. But they didn't change the covid deaths but only changed how they categories them and that change had nothing to do with the PCR test being inaccurate. It seems clear you didn't represent the fact accurately and made it sound like they changed the death toll way down because they realized the PCR test was inaccurate.
If that isn't misleading then what is?
Oh, so that's how it really looks. Intuitions correct based on observation and logic, and also now empirical evidence. Sad sanity. No wonder so many avoid it.
Nah. PCR isn't needed to diagnose people with moderate covid (D-dimer, neutrophil count, etc.). The covid death numbers are inflated, but not by 97%.
Mild covid is still impossible to diagnose because of over-cycling and confounding by other ILIs.
a